1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

2

4 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - )

5 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA *

6 vs. * CASE NO. 2021-R-00584

21-cr-00160
7 WILLIAM CHRESTMAN *

8 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - )

9 File: 210811_0077.WAV

10

11

12 Interview of:

13 CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE

14

15 Wednesday, August 11, 2021

16

17

18

19

20 APPEARANCES:

21 Assistant United States Attorney

AGENT
22 AGENT
AGENT
23

24

25

FREE STATE REPORTING, INC.

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000405

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
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1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 For the record, we took a pause at

3 4:55 p.m. to download part of the recording for space issues

4 and took a break. It is now 5:13 p.m., and we'll continue.

5 BY

6 Q. Is that okay with you,

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And, again, recognize that we appreciate your

9 cooperation. And this is totally voluntary. I can't

10 emphasize that enough. Do you understand?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Okay, before we took the pause here, I read the

13 instructions from the Kansas City Proud Boys Chapter

14 president. Do you recall who the president was at the time

15 that sent this?

16 A. His online name That wasn't his real

17 name, though. I do not recall it off the top of my head

18 because I used so regularly.

19 Q. Sure. And you provided this information to the

20 FBI, correct?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. How did you receive it?

23 A. Personal message.

24 Q. When you say personal message, does that mean a

25 direct message?

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000406

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
 3

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Okay.

3 A. I don't know if others also received it from him.

4 I didn't inquire.

5 Q. Did you respond to the Chapter president?

6 A. I believe I did, in regards to, you know, I'll

7 make sure that others know this, too.

8 Q. Do you have copies of those communications?

9 A. Not with me. I shared as much as I could with

10

11 Q. And what -- to clarify, if you say not with you,

12 does that mean you might have them elsewhere?

13 A. No, no. I, you know, you run out of space on your

14 phone and like, well, I know I've sent that, so I start

15 clearing out stuff I don't need. And to keep something like

16 that on my phone, if someone else where to get a hold of it

17 could compromise me. They'd be like, what are you doing

18 with all this saved up?

19 Q. Okay. You were concerned that they would be

20 suspicious why you would be storing all this information?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. So, to the best of your memory, you received this

23 directly. Are you aware of anyone else who received this

24 message from the president?

25 A. I didn't inquire. I do not know.

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000407

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
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1 Q. Did you share this information with anybody?

2 A. Yeah, anyone I talked to, it was like, remember,

3 we got to be defense, you cannot be offensive, and stuff

4 like that.

5 Q. When you say anyone you would talk to, would that

6 be the individuals you were traveling with?

7 A. Yeah, individuals in the chat, but everyone was --

8 there were a lot of people echoing the same things, so I

9 don't know if it's because they had also gotten the same

10 message or if it was just going without saying.

11 Q. Do you know whether Mr. Chrestman received this

12 message?

13 A. I do not know.

14 Q. Do you know -- do you have any recollection of

15 communicating with Mr. Chrestman regarding the message or

16 the instructions from the president?

17 A. I do not remember.

18 Q. Do you have any recollection of discussing with

19 Chris Kuehne the message from the president?

20 A. I don't remember.

21 Q. Do you remember discussing with Mr. Colon the

22 message from the president?

23 A. I don't believe I would have. My communication

24 with Mr. Colon was very limited and we'd only known each

25 other briefly.

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000408

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
 5

1 Q. Do you recall having any communication with Ryan

2 Ashlock about the message from the president?

3 A. I do not recall.

4 Q. Did you have any communication?

5 A. If I did, the communication would have been like,

6 do you have X, Y, and Z protective gear, and stuff like

7 that.

8 Q. Now there is the thing in here about, the D.C.

9 Chapter's requested that you not wear black and yellow. Do

10 you recall any conversations with the folks you were

11 traveling with about what to wear or what not to wear?

12 A. Just not to wear that. We were just going to try

13 and blend in with a lot of other people and --

14 Q. The best of your ability, describe those -- that

15 communication, or how that information was disseminated or

16 discussed, if at all.

17 A. Could you -- I'm sorry, I got a little off track,

18 could you reiterate?

19 Q. Absolutely. Just please tell us whatever you

20 remember about discussions with anyone regarding what to

21 wear.

22 A. I'm trying to recall why D.C. didn't want us to

23 wear colors. I believe, matter of fact, I'm mostly sure

24 now, that it was because they were already taking some heat.

25 Especially in regards to the events of December. And so,

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000409

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000410
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1 passing along a written version of the president's

2 instructions to anyone?

3 A. I did not create a written version, so I would not

4 have passed a written version along.

5 Q. And do you recall any specific conversations with

6 anyone -- anyone, period, about the fact that the purpose of

7 attending the rally was -- or to go to D.C., was to defend

8 others from Antifa or Black Lives Matter?

9 A. Say the question again.

10 Q. Do you recall having a conversation with anyone

11 that you were traveling with?

12

13

14 A. I had no communication with the people in the

15 other vehicle. And I do recall that I was having enough

16 trouble keeping real names and faces straight with screen

17 names that I was a little confused with who was in the other

18 vehicle, as well, even though I kind of had an idea who was

19 going down. And as we left D.C., I ended up riding with

20 William Chrestman, and he mentioned multiple times, well,

21 you know, we were there to stop the steal. You know, I

22 thought that's what we were there to do. And I was like,

23 you know, that's not what I thought we were going to do, but

24 that's what his takeaway was in the way he was rationalizing

25 the previous day's events while we drove.

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000411

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
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1 Q. And that was a conversation on the way back from

2 the event?

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. And we'll follow up on that then. Prior to the

5 event, did you have any communications -- let me be clear.

6 Prior to the January 6th, did you have any communications

7 with Mr. Chrestman about what the purpose was of going to

8 D.C. on January 6th?

9 A. Any communications we had was about, you know,

10 being there to protect the Trump supporters from attack.

11 Q. Do you recall having a specific conversation with

12 him about that?

13 A. I do not recall. It could have been very light in

14 the passing, which is why I don't recall, unless I stated

15 something previously to and I'm just not pulling it

16 out of my memory bank at this time.

17 Q. Who was in the other car?

18 A. Chris Kuehne, Enrique Colon,

19

20 Q. Was Mr. Ashlock --

21 A. Ryan Ashlock.

22 Q. And let me just throw out the blanket question, do

23 you recall any specific conversations with the individuals

24 in the other car at any time regarding that the purpose of

25 going to D.C. was to defend against Antifa or Black Lives

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000412

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
 9

1 matter?

2 A. If I did, it would have been with Ryan Ashlock

3 since they told me to put him under my wing just to try and

4 reiterate that he was not supposed to be proactive in

5 violence.

6 Q. Do you have a specific recollection of a

7 conversation like that?

8 A. I do not have a specific one, but I could see that

9 as, you know, hey, just make sure it's defensive, man.

10 Something along those lines.

11 Q. Do you know who drafted this message from the

12 president?

13 A. I assumed it was the president.

14 Q. Were you involved in drafting it?

15 A. No.

16 Q. Are you aware of any request from Proud Boys

17 national leadership or other chapters that the Proud Boys

18 not wear their Proud Boys colors or uniforms for January 6?

19 A. I'm not aware of anything additional, no.

20 Q. Did you --

21 A. And some Proud Boys do operate in chats and

22 channels that I am not in, mainly because I didn't -- I

23 don't know if they exist, or I may have looked at it briefly

24 and said, yeah, there's too much for me to try and follow.

25 Q. Did you follow, or do you ever recall looking at

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000413

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
 10

1 any social media accounts or Parler accounts for Enrique

2 Tarrio?

3 A. I do not recall. I mean, I may have before Parler

4 was originally taken down. I know I had followed a couple

5 Proud Boy accounts in there at that time, but once Parler

6 originally got taken down and was moved, that was months

7 prior.

8 Q. And do you have any recollection of any

9 communications in Mr. Tarrio's Parler or social media

10 regarding what to do, or where, on January 6th?

11 A. No.

12 Q. And did you ever, to the best of your knowledge,

13 ever access any social media accounts or Parler accounts for

14 Joseph Biggs?

15 A. No.

16 Q. Okay. Any other members of national Proud Boys

17 leadership social media or Parler accounts that you recall

18 accessing?

19 A. No. And if in Enrique's house of propaganda, he

20 had said something, sometimes when I get on a channel and

21 there's over a hundred messages there, it's too much to

22 read, so I'll just quickly go to the bottom and catch up on

23 the most recent stuff. So I could have easily, you know,

24 bypassed it as a result. I used to try to read, but then

25 after a while, there's so many fart jokes and fag jokes and

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000414

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
 11

1 everything else all the way down through it that, you know,

2 it becomes redundant.

3 Q. So you left on January 4th; is that correct?

4 A. The evening, yes.

5 Q. At that point, was there a plan on where you were

6 going to go in D.C.?

7 A. had reserved a house rental, kind

8 of like Airbnb, but I don't know if it was the same company.

9 Q. And did you have any information when you left to

10 go to D.C. regarding where you -- what you were supposed to

11 do on January 6?

12 A. No, just, you know, that it was going to be pretty

13 much like December 12th, where were there during the day.

14 Everyone's like, thank you for being here, et cetera, et

15 cetera, because some of the people that had gone before had

16 discussed this kind of stuff. And then that night, you

17 know, be there for -- to protect Trump supporters and all.

18 But that -- part of the reason why we were not wearing

19 colors is because of all the aggression that had happened

20 that night in actively going out and them looking for Antifa

21 and challenging them at BLM Park and all that stuff with

22 cops dividing, and how that -- we were encouraged not to be

23 proactive in such things.

24 Q. By who?

25 A. Everyone in general, because of legal stuff

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000415

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
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1 already going on with hate crime charges for the BLM banner

2 and stuff like that.

3 Q. When you say, everyone in general, what do you

4 mean?

5 A. Well, higher ups in the Proud Boys in Kansas City.

6 Q. Okay.

7 A. Just to be a little more specific, they didn't

8 want us, you know, being in a situation where if someone

9 ripped down a banner, any of our guys would get in trouble.

10 They didn't say those words explicitly, but they were

11 telling us to scale back and not make it like last time.

12 Q. Is that in addition to the written instructions or

13 apart from the written instructions that you received?

14 A. That was outside of the written instructions, just

15 making sure everyone played it safe.

16 Q. And where did you get that information?

17 A. There was a meta. Um, let's see. Where was a

18 meet-up. Let's see, where was it?

19

20

21

22 And a

23 couple times, they even gave guys their second degrees in

24 the back parking lot there. And that's where I recall some

25 talk like that happening.

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000416

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
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1 Q. Who was present for that?

2 A. A lot of guys, but the president was there for

3 that one, of Kansas City. And, you know, he had, you know,

4 guys be safe, don't be stupid, stuff like that. And so his

5 written instructions were close to what he was saying that

6 day, actually. And I'm just actually recalling that of --

7 that night now, as a direct result of our conversations.

8 Q. And who from the two carloads of people that

9 traveled to Washington, D.C., from Kansas City attended the

10 meeting you just described?

11 A. I can't say specifically. I know a few of them

12 were there, not like Ryan Ashlock or anything like that. I

13 don't recall Enrique being there either. Trying to remember

14 the specific -- --

15

16 But there -- yeah, there was

17 a --

18 Q. Do you have a specific recollection of

19 William Chrestman being there?

20 A. I don't want to confuse it with other nighttime

21 events.

22 Q. Sure.

23 A. I may end up doing that.

24 Q. And that's why the question is a specific

25 recollection.

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000417

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
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1 A. I can't say I have a specific recollection.

2 Q. Do you have a specific recollection of

3 Chris Kuehne being at the meeting you described?

4 A. I can't say I do. It's -- because I'm just

5 remembering that there was that we meet-up and it was just

6 a, you know, it was just prior, right before we went out to

9 And so, yeah, I

10 do recall, though, that there was one event right before

11 that where guys got together to drink, and it was at that

12 location, and it was prior to heading out.

13 Q. Do you recall how soon before heading out?

14 A. Within that two-week window and all that. And I

15 think there was a period where I wasn't sure I was going to

16 go, but on the -- by the 29th, that's when I was going.

17 Trying to get -- because I know it happened there, now, and

18 I'm like, wait a minute, so what date did that happen on,

19 but I hadn't thought about it since that time. So --

20 Q. So it's my understanding that on January 6, you

21 ended up meeting at the Washington Monument at 10 a.m.; is

22 that correct?

23 A. Yeah.

24 Q. And however, prior to leaving for D.C., was

25 there -- were you aware of a plan of where to meet, or who

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000418

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
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1 you would be meeting with in Washington, D.C.?

2 A. No, I thought (indiscernible). And so, I was

3 like, okay, so what are we doing? And we -- others thought,

4 oh, well, we'll be right outside Harry's and that's the

5 normal meet up place. So we're there for a while. It's

6 like, where is everyone else at? And that's when I started

7 reaching out to the president.

8 Q. So you were unaware of any specific, even

9 logistics for the rally itself; is that correct?

10 A. Correct. And the president thought we had gotten

11 there a day before and that we had been around all the other

12 stuff. And so, we knew the information that we had, and we

13 were still on the road.

14 Q. You recall any discussions? You mentioned

15 bringing in protective equipment. Were there any

16 discussions about bringing radios?

17 A. It would -- I do recall that briefly. tends

18 to discuss radios and stuff like that. But none of us had

19 stuff like that, just that, you know, we would reach out to

20 each other via the Telegram channel. If you get lost, say,

21 hey, this is where I'm at.

22 Q. Did you ever radio?

23 A. No, I did not have a radio.

24 Q. Do you know of any others from the two carloads of

25 individuals we discussed, who had a radio?

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000419

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
 16

1 A. At that time, no. I believe at the December 12th,

2 there was some guys that had a radio, and they were

3 listening in that day, you know, trying to catch, you know,

4 what Antifa was planning. But I am not aware of January 6.

5 I mean, we had hardly any sleep and all that, and went out

6 bright and early. We figured as long as everyone stuck

7 together and did what they said, we wouldn't have a need for

8 radios.

9 Q. So now the two carloads of folks that are going

10 out -- or the group from Kansas City, is there a leader of

11 that group?

12 A. I don't believe that there was a leader. I mean,

13 up until he backed out, you know, seemed to

14 be organizing it more, and more in tune for everything. But

15 afterwards, no, because that's why the night before, as we

16 were coming in, we found out that Chris Kuehne had gone to

17 the store to get tape, so that way we could help make sure

18 we, we kept an eye on each other so we wouldn't get mixed

19 up, because there had been talk that Antifa would be trying

20 to blend in and dress like, you know, MAGA supporters and

21 everything else, just trying to blend in. And so, they had,

22 before we got to D.C., Chris Kuehne's vehicle decided that

23 it'd be a smart idea to get some highly visible tape, duct

24 tape, and be able to put that on some of our guys to help us

25 spot each other. So if there's a defensive situation, the

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000420

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
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1 wrong guy doesn't end up getting hurt.

2 Q. How did you learn that?

3 A. It was as we were coming into D.C., one of -- I

4 think it was had mentioned that briefly

5 through their -- talking with someone else, I don't know

6 who, but I was in the back seat, and it seemed to -- yeah, I

7 recall it coming from And I was like, well, that's

8 cool, because, you know, we had briefly talked about it

9 ourselves. Like, I wonder if we need something that can

10 help us identify each other and all that and found out that

11 they were already doing it. And so, it was still, you know,

12 at that point, yeah, the fact that none of us were, you

13 know, had already pre thought that, shows that we were kind

14 of leaderless on stuff. I mean, would talk a good

15 game, though.

16

17

18 Q. Who was the most senior Proud Boy from the Kansas

19 City group that went out?

20 A.

21 Q. Where do you think you fell? If you and

22 Mr. Chrestman both got your seconds on the same day.

23 A. Right in there. I mean, you know, I'm a nice,

24 easy-to-get-along-with guy, so people would talk to me, you

25 know, friendly, like, but I'm not the bark-orders-at-anyone

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000421

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
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1 kind of type. I think that everyone was listening to anyone

2 with former military experience more than me because they

3 had more knowledge on how to be organized and move together.

4 There was talk about going through the crowd and resting one

5 hand on each shoulder, so we did get separated in crowds,

6 and all that, as we just freely moved about in a nonviolent

7 situation.

8 Q. Who talked about that?

9 A. I do not recall, but I do recall it being

10 mentioned that night in the living room.

11 Q. Okay, and we'll get to the discussions that

12 evening. Now, before we get to the actual travel to D.C.,

13 did the FBI request you to travel to D.C. for the January 6

14 event?

15 A. They didn't request. I just, you know, I'd seen

16 the call, well, if you find out they're going, let me know.

17 I found out they were going and said, I'm going to go along

18 with them.

19 Q. Okay, so whose decision was it for you to go to

20 the January 6 event?

21 A. I don't even believe I even got any money to go

22 with from you all on that, because it was so quick, so it

23 would have had to have been my decision to go.

24 Q. And as part of this trip, other than the general

25 tasking of reporting on violence in general, were you asked

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000422

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
 19

1 to do anything with regard to the Proud Boys on this trip?

2 A. I do not recall specific instructions on that. I

3 was just, you know, going to -- if I observe something and I

4 could report on a crime, that's what I do. And --

5 Q. But to be clear, did the FBI ask you to do

6 anything with regard to the Proud Boys on this trip?

7 I do not recall that. Just originally, let us know if

8 they're going to go. That's it.

9 Q. Okay. Were you given any authorization to break

10 the (indiscernible) on this trip?

11 A. No. And I don't believe we would have even had

12 time to get something like that to go through. Yeah, so --

13 Q. You said you left on January 4th,

14 Do you recall the route you took?

15 A. We took I-70 East for a long, long, long, long

16 time.

17 Q. And I may make this easier. Do you recall going

18 through Lexington on your way to D.C.?

19 A. It does ring a bell, Kentucky, yeah, because I

20 believe it was east of there that we got a hotel for the

21 night.

22 Q. Did you meet with others in or around the

23 Lexington area? I do not recall doing that. And I think we

24 tried to say, hey, where y'all stopping off at. And they're

25 like, eh, we're stopping here. And we only got a few hours

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000423

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
 20

1 of sleep because we got in really late.

2 Q. So you didn't meet up with other groups traveling

3 to D.C.?

4 A. No, we would see vehicles occasionally.

5 Q. Okay.

6 A. And they were like normal Trump supporters with

7 flags hanging off their cars and stuff. But I do not recall

8 instances where we tried to communicate with them.

9 Q. You left on the 4th. You spent the night. When

10 did you arrive in D.C.?

11 A. The evening of the 5th. It was dark. I can't

12 recall the exact time, maybe 7:00-ish. Maybe 8:00-ish. I

13 could have been earlier, though, because winter, I mean, it

14 gets dark earlier.

15 Q. Are you aware of anyone in your car who brought

16 any weapons with them to D.C.?

17 A. In my car, I do not recall anyone bringing a

18 weapon.

19 Q. Did you have a weapon?

20 A. No, and I was actually given some pepper spray by

21 Chris Kuehne the morning of January 6 because I didn't have

22 a weapon.

23 Q. Did you have a knife with you?

24 A. I don't recall. If I did, it was just, you know,

25 normal, like something you have -- I have one in the door of

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000424

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
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1 my car right now and all that --

2 Q. What kind of knife?

3 A. Just a small little one that folds out. I do not

4 recall if I had it with me that day, though. Oh, no,

5 because I would have -- there was a lot of talk about making

6 sure you don't bring something that could definitely get you

7 in trouble, whereas pepper spray is, you know, definitely

8 that could be a self-defense thing from, you know, a mob,

9 like, you know, some -- or not mob, but, you know, let's say

10 someone's going out to their car and someone tries to rob

11 them on the way. It would be normal to have pepper spray.

12 Q. So when you arrived in D.C. -- so, just to clarify

13 that, to the best of your knowledge, you don't recall

14 whether you brought a knife to D.C.?

15 A. I do not recall having a knife with me inside D.C.

16 Q. So when you arrived in the D.C. area, you went to

17 the Airbnb that had rented. Is that

18 correct?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Who else was staying there?

21 A. Both carloads, stopped by with his

22 friends briefly. And then they left because they had

23 accommodations elsewhere.

24 Q. Okay. So that, just to be clear, was

25 Mr. Chrestman, Kuehne, Colon, Ashlock, and you, and

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000425

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947
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2 A. Yes, to the best of my knowledge, that's all who

3 was there. I don't believe there was anyone else.

4 Q. Were you involved in going to Home Depot to get

5 any supplies?

6 A. No.

7 Q. Are you aware of anyone going to Home Depot to get

8 supplies?

9 A. Chris Kuehne and one other person in his vehicle,

10 I'm -- maybe, two. I'm not aware of who they were.

11 Q. Did they go while -- after you had arrived in D.C.

12 or before?

13 A. They got back to the house from Home Depot after

14 we had arrived.

15 Q. Okay, and do you know what, if anything, they went

16 and got?

17 A. Duct tape, orange fluorescent color.

18 Q. Do you recall Mr. Colon got an axe -- or an axe

19 handle? I'm sorry.

20 A. I do not recall that.

21 Q. Do you know if anyone else went to the Home Depot

22 to get any type of weapons, or any place to get any type of

23 weapons, including an axe handle?

24 A. I do not recall, but I know that William Chrestman

25 carried an ax handle that day. I thought he had brought it

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1 A. Sorry, the Colon, Q (indiscernible) --

2 Q. Approximately what time did you get into the D.C.

3 area on January 5th?

4 A. It could have been as early as 6:00 or as late as

5 8:00.

6 Q. Okay, So it was evening?

7 A. Yeah, it was definitely dark at the time.

8 Q. And what was going on at the house that evening?

9 A. People were talking about food, getting a bite to

10 eat or something like that, and that the other guys were not

11 there right now because they had run to the store, the Home

12 Depot. And so we pretty much just brought in some of our

13 stuff and put it where we were going to sleep of. I don't

14 recall at which point Billy arrived, if he arrived before us

15 or after. Or William Chrestman, sorry, Billy was

16 (indiscernible).

17 Q. And then other than and whoever was with him

18 coming by the house, did anybody else come by the house that

19 evening?

20 A. Not to my recollection. I do not recall.

21 Q. And what was going on at the house? Drinking,

22 partying, eating, resting, anything?

23 A. Eating, and then talking about, you know,

24 what -- it got -- the guys with military experience were

25 putting in their two cents about how to stay safe, stay

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 25

1 away, how to move as a group. So that way, you know, we

2 didn't get lost when we didn't need to because then, you

3 know, if you get separated, you could get hurt. And how

4 will anyone else know, that kind of talk.

5 Q. Was there any discussion, to the best of your

6 recollection, about the election?

7 A. Some, yes. I don't recall who, but I mean, it was

8 all, you know, I mean, it's the whole point of the rally.

9 So of course, some of the topic went around that.

10 Q. And that was a bad question. I'll come back to

11 that. Did anybody -- was there any formality to this get

12 together? For example, did people address the group or give

13 introductions or anything like that?

14 A. If in regards to, well, I used to be the military

15 and I did X, Y, and Z, and from, you know, when it comes to

16 a situation like this, this is something we need to, you

17 know, think about, and keep in our minds and that kind of

18 thing, like when was talking, and all.

19 Q. Okay, but was there any discussion about -- other

20 than tactically, how to defend the group or keep the group

21 safe, were there any other discussions about what

22 specifically the group was going to do the next day?

23 A. We're going to wake up at this time. We're going

24 to -- some of the guys had already plotted out where we're

25 going to get onto the subway transit system to get into the

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1 area, and it's going to be real busy, so we're going to want

2 to go early, and everything. And make sure you don't bring

3 any weapons, because I know some of them did have guns.

4 Like Enrique Colon had brought a gun. And I believe Chris

5 Kuehne had a -- Bill or William Chrestman had mentioned

6 about having brought a gun. And I was like, I do recall at

7 one point thinking, I could have sworn they had something

8 that when you drove into D.C., it could, like, x-ray your

9 car, see if you had guns there and all that. And I'm like,

10 or maybe that's just, you know, something I read that they

11 were talking about doing that. You know, I recall thinking

12 along those lines, and all.

13 Q. Were -- other than the logistics of when to get up

14 and how to travel to the downtown, were there any other

15 discussions about what the group was actually going to do

16 the next day?

17 A. We were just kind of winging it and waiting to

18 meet up with the rest of the Proud Boys.

19 Q. Okay. Was there any discussion about doing

20 anything at the Capitol?

21 A. No.

22 Q. Was there any discussion about doing anything to

23 do -- with regard to the election?

24 A. No, just, you know, the normal, yeah, you pause

25 the vote middle of the night, then the numbers change. That

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1 kind of thing.

2 Q. So no, you know, no discussion about taking action

3 as a result of that; is that correct?

4 A. No, and it wasn't until the day after, on

5 January 7th, that Billy even made comments like, I thought

6 that's what we were there to do.

7 Q. So he wasn't making comments like that, that

8 evening?

9 A. No.

10 Q. Did anyone in the group indicate they wanted to

11 use force or violence against anyone other than Antifa and

12 Black Lives Matter?

13 A. No.

14 Q. Okay. And you mentioned you -- or that Enrique

15 Colon had a gun with him. How did you learn that?

16 A. Because on January 6th, when we got back to the

17 house after that day's events, he was real nervous. He had

18 had family come from a nearby military base or something and

19 pick him up. And Chris Kuehne made the comment that he left

20 his gun behind, with him, along with some boots and stuff.

21 Q. Do you know if Mr. Colon brought the gun with him

22 to the march?

23 A. I do not know. I mean, the fact that it was left

24 in the truck and the truck did transport people means that

25 he could have had it there. But I do not have specific

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1 knowledge about that.

2 Q. And I think you mentioned that Chris Kuehne had a

3 gun, too.

4 A. Yeah.

5 Q. How did you know that?

6 A. Just random mentions, you know, about, you know,

7 because of safety and everything like that. Like, you know

8 what if it's hard getting out of D.C. because of Antifa and

9 everything like that.

10 Q. So how is that how the gun came up?

11 A. Yes, actually, because someone joked, it's like,

12 man, what if they start putting up roadblocks and stuff like

13 they do in some places and all. And it's like, you know,

14 we've got a few guns. We can -- I'm sure we can get our way

15 to safety.

16 Q. Do you know what kind of gun he had with him?

17 A. I do not know. I do know, though, that at one

18 point during our conversation, it had been mentioned that

19 Chris Kuehne was capable for parts and all that, of building

20 someone -- if they would ever request it and could legally

21 own one, a BOF .50 cal for right around $800. And I was

22 like, hmm, well, if you want to go hunting an elephant.

23 Q. Do you know if Mr. Kuehne brought the guns with

24 him to the rally?

25 A. I do not know.

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1 hadn't prepared for that, but someone had to buy a card for

2 another person in the group. And that way, you know, we'd

3 have our passes for the day. And then it was about figuring

4 out which train we had -- or subway we had to get on to get

5 into that area.

6 Q. What time did you all leave the house

7 approximately?

8 A. I would say around 4:30, 5:00.

9 Q. Do you know who -- how the decision came to leave

10 so early?

11 A. We were thinking about crowds, but it wasn't my

12 decision. It was just, you know, it's going to be really

13 packed. And sure enough, that morning when we got there,

14 there were already people trickling down the sidewalk with

15 Trump shirts and flags and all that, and it only increased

16 from then on.

17 Q. Did -- so would you say it was a consensus as

18 opposed to an individual saying we will leave at this time?

19 A. The drivers were the ones making the plans in

20 general.

21 Q. Okay.

22 A. Basically, the guys who -- at that point, anyone

23 with military background, they had already, you know,

24 they're the ones that instruct the group how we go and --

25 Q. And who in the group had military backgrounds?

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1 A. and Chrestman, Chris Kuehne that I know of.

2 Q. Was it your impression that they were responsible

3 for any of the tactical planning?

4 A. They had more experience, so any tactical planning

5 did come from them.

6 Q. So once you got downtown into D.C., it's my

7 understanding you then went to Harry's Bar.

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And why was that location chosen?

10 A. Because that tends to be where Proud Boys like to

11 hang out. And that's where everyone was on December 12th

12 for the MAGA rally. But that wasn't where they were this

13 time.

14 Q. Okay. So once you arrived at Harry's Bar, at some

15 point, did you get -- did somebody get instructions as to

16 what you were supposed to do that day?

17 A. We were there for a while first. And then we're

18 like, maybe we should walk around and look around, look for

19 other people. And while we were doing that, we decided we

20 were going to head back to Harry's Bar, and maybe people

21 are, you know, getting there now. Maybe we were just early.

22 At that time, on our way back there, is when we first

23 encountered the militia guy from Colorado, and he is like,

24 are you all militia? We're like, no, we're Proud Boys. He

25 goes, oh, I'm with the Colorado militia. I'm kind of alone

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1 right now. Can I just walk around with you all for a bit

2 and all that? And I'm like, yeah, but once we get up with

3 the rest of our Proud Boys, you can't really hang inside.

4 But I don't think anyone policed that the rest of the day.

5 And he pretty much did his own thing from that point on.

6 Q. Do you -- were you involved with the decision to

7 allow the militia guy to hang out with you guys, or how did

8 that happen?

9 A. It was just we didn't care. We were just polite.

10 I remember he came up to -- and asked me, and I think at

11 that point I was surrounded by a bunch of them, and

12 everybody -- I don't recall being the one to give the, yes,

13 you may absolutely, you know -- but I think it was like,

14 yeah, until we meet the other Proud Boys or something like

15 that, you know, just so he'd have someone to hang out --

16 someone to hang out with. Then that's when we were told

17 that others, the Ozark Chapter guys were down there, and

18 they didn't know what to do. And so we were -- we arranged

19 to go meet up with them.

20 Q. Let me take a pause here. Before this point -- I

21 forget, and I know we talked about this -- before this

22 point, were you aware that you were going -- you were

23 supposed to meet up with the Ozark people? Or was that --

24 A. I was not aware at that time.

25 Q. So at some point then, after you met the Colorado

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1 Konold and her brother, who were like, who are you all. And

2 like, Proud Boys. Like, oh, cool, and all this stuff. What

3 are you doing? We're just going to go meet up with some

4 people. Can we walk with you al since we're here alone?

5 People tend to feel safer in groups, and a lot of people,

6 you know, were constantly like, you know, would -- like when

7 we were there in December, and they could tell we were Proud

8 Boys, people were always walking up telling us how glad we

9 were there for them and all that. So you know, it's like,

10 sure, but once we get up with the other Proud Boys, you're

11 not going to be able to walk in amongst them. And even once

12 everyone organized up, it was called out that, you know, if

13 you're not a Proud Boy, you got to walk in the back.

14 Q. So who interacted with Ms. Konold and her brother,

15 with regard to, you can walk with us, and (indiscernible)?

16 A. William Chrestman was in communication with her.

17 And it was like they all, like, were right there with each

18 other the whole day from that -- from the initial meet.

19 Q. So --

20 A. And some of us joked, it's like, think Billy kind

21 of likes her, you know.

22 Q. So was it you then, at one point, that reached out

23 to the president to say, hey, what's the plan?

24 A. Well, he had -- that's when the president said, I

25 thought you guys were already there, and knew. And we were

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1 like, no, we weren't here yesterday for when Enrique got

2 released and all that. And so he had to reach out and then

3 said, they're going to be at the Washington Monument at

4 10:00. Find this guy, let them know you made it there.

5 Q. And this was a direct message to you from the

6 president?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And was it your understanding, then that these

9 instructions had been given to others who were there when

10 Enrique had been released?

11 A. When -- yeah, when Enrique had been released, all

12 the other Proud Boys that were already there knew where to

13 meet up the next day.

14 Q. That was your understanding?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And do you recall who you were instructed to check

17 in with at the monument?

18 A. I do not recall his name. It was an odd street

19 name. He was a very -- guy could have been Samoan, could

20 have been half black. Very big. I think he might have had

21 one tooth with like some gold trim around it. I may be

22 wrong on that. But I mean, if I was to encounter him

23 elsewhere, like in a normal street and all that stuff, I'd

24 think he, you know -- just that first appearance had like

25 some thuggish context, how he looked.

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1 Q. So you got the information from the president. I

2 assume you then conveyed that to the rest of the group.

3 Hey, we've got to go to the Washington Monument. Would that

4 be fair to say?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Okay.

7 A. And as we were walking up, there was a large group

8 there that were in military fatigues and everything. And as

9 we were walking up, one of the guys gave the okay symbol,

10 but very discreetly, like that. And a couple of us returned

11 it to let him know that, yeah, we're Proud Boys approaching

12 and all. But I don't think he was told to do that, he was

13 probably just checking, are these other Proud Boys coming

14 up.

15 Q. Do you know who it was?

16 A. No, just a random in the crowd he saw. Someone

17 was like -- and we returned and kept going up.

18 Q. So once you get to the monument, you've checked

19 in, what happens next?

20 A. Hours of standing around.

21 Q. Okay. Of standing around at the monument?

22 A. Yeah.

23 Q. Okay.

24 A. And every now and then someone would walk by and

25 say, whoa, look at the size of this militia. I'm like,

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1 they're not a militia. They're Proud Boys. You know, and

2 stuff like that. The Arizona guy showed up. I remember

3 them because they all had really bright orange safety-

4 colored beanies on. And, you know, I was like, oh, what

5 chapter you from? We're from Arizona. Oh, yeah, Kansas

6 City. You know, that was it, just typical politeness and --

7 but no real in-depth conversation or anything like that.

8 Q. Okay. Standing -- then at some point the -- I

9 take it the group moved at some point?

10 A. Yeah, then the guy in glasses from previous

11 pictures began shouting out some orders and saying that, as

12 we walk, none of you will walk past the leaders. The

13 leaders must be in front, and you will keep pace with us.

14 We will pause every now and then for pictures. Make sure

15 you do not cross in front of all this. Make sure you're

16 listening, and we will never again come to one of these not

17 wearing our colors.

18 Q. And how -- was he using a bullhorn or was he just

19 yelling, or what do you recall about that?

20 A. I, I thought he was yelling. I don't recall off

21 the top of my head enough, I'd never given much thought to

22 trying to remember that instance. I don't recall seeing

23 bullhorns in people's hands.

24 Q. Was there any organization of how people lined up

25 behind the leaders?

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 38

1 A. No.

2 Q. Do you recall anybody else giving instructions

3 other than the guy in sunglasses?

4 A. One other guy might have shouted something, but

5 the guy in sunglasses was the predominant. He was actually,

6 you know, the -- if anyone seemed to be in charge, it would

7 have been him.

8 Q. Okay. Now you said somebody may have shouted

9 something. Do have a recollection of that?

10 A. No. More like, shut up, listen up, kind of stuff

11 like that.

12 Q. Okay. And as you've already said, you didn't

13 actually have direct contact with that individual in the

14 sunglasses. Is that correct?

15 A. Correct.

16 Q. Okay, so you said you would be walking around and

17 stopping for pictures, had to line up behind leadership.

18 And so that I take it you then -- the group started walking;

19 is that correct?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. Were there any discussions at the monument about

22 what the plan was other than walking around?

23 A. No, because I recall even thinking to myself as I

24 was walking and we were chanting, fuck Antifa, and whose

25 streets, our streets -- and as we were doing the walking, I

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1 remember thinking, what are they gonna do, walk us all day

2 and expect us to be able to defend against Antifa at night.

3 And, you know, I'm like, my boots are really making my feet

4 sore. They weren't broken in. It was horrible experience

5 and I'll never wear combat boots again. But so, yeah, there

6 was a lot of -- at some point, as we're walking through,

7 we're like, I hope they walk us past some food trucks. I'm

8 kinda hungry because -- so and that was from some random

9 stranger in the crowd. He said it loud enough that he got

10 some giggles, and someone else, walk us past the porta

11 potties, you know? And then they'd say, halt, some

12 pictures, continue. And then when we got to the end of

13 another patch of grass, halt, pictures, continue. And

14 someone would get down and film us walking by from the

15 bottom up and everything like that. And, you know, one of

16 those odd avant-garde angles or whatever, you know, just a

17 bunch of that. And when we finally got to some kind of a

18 water fountain thing at the base of the Capitol, outside the

19 barriers and all that, we had to pause for a photo there,

20 too. And then he walked us around into the other side of

21 the Capitol. And people were like, who are you all. And

22 we're like, fuck Antifa, not whose streets -- and people are

23 like, oh, those are Proud Boys. Can we come too? And I

24 think William Chrestman went and talked to the guy in the

25 sunglasses and asked about the other people, was told they

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 40

1 have to walk at the back of us. They cannot walk amongst

2 us.

3 Q. Did Chrestman know the guy in sunglasses, was your

4 understanding?

5 A. No. But a lot of people kept mistaking Chrestman

6 for Gavin McInnes. And so it was almost like some people

7 were naturally giving him a leadership role, even though he

8 was not involved. And so he walked up, say, hey,

9 (indiscernible). They got to stay at the back and, you

10 know --

11 Q. Okay.

12 A. And at that point, it was like --

13 Q. And you learned that from Chrestman?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. They were told that they have to stay in the back.

16 Is that correct?

17 A. Yeah, that he had gone and asked for the people

18 who had saw us on the front side of the Capitol and wanted

19 to walk with us. So we'll start out with -- our group had

20 grown up, and all that. Kept increasing in size.

21 Q. And at some point, you guys stop at the food

22 trucks; is that correct?

23 A. Yes. After we came back down. And I remember

24 thinking to myself, how I had to tell people they could join

25 with us only to come down here and then disperse for food,

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1 you know?

2 Q. Do you recall anything -- so when you guys broke

3 at the food trucks, were there any instructions, or how did

4 you guys get back together, or anything like that?

5 A. They were just like, all right, come on guys, line

6 up. You know, just the general shouts like that. I don't

7 recall what was specifically said, but we all got back

8 together again.

9 Q. And up to this point, were you aware of anybody

10 engaging in any discussions about doing anything at the

11 Capitol?

12 A. No.

13 Q. So then from the food trucks -- and during this

14 break, (indiscernible) -- from the food trucks, you then

15 begin walking again. Is that correct?

16 A. Yes, it was a much shorter walk. I had a chance

17 to take some ibuprofen, which started to take the edge off

18 of my soreness. And we walked back towards the Capitol on

19 the side where the inauguration was going to go. And we

20 were on a side street in front of it. We weren't facing

21 directly, but we were like, you know, like, a left to right

22 angle. I can't recall if we were facing south or facing

23 north because a little turned around, you know, hadn't been

24 there that often. But the Washington Monument would have

25 been to our right many patches of grass away. And so we

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1 were standing there, and we weren't even in front of the

2 main stairs leading up and all that. And I remember

3 watching a large crowd of Trump supporter flags and people

4 walking up and everything, and they all get up there to the

5 front and all that. And I'm hearing that Trump said, you

6 know, let's walk to the Capitol or something. And then I

7 saw people start going up the steps, and I said, I thought

8 there were barriers there. And, oh, they just knocked down

9 the barriers, at which point --

10 Q. Let me stop you here. So you guys were paused

11 there in front of the barriers for a while; is that correct?

12 A. Yes, but just off to the side of them, not

13 directly in front.

14 Q. And what --

15 A. Well, but I was far enough back, to me, it

16 appeared we were not directly in front of them.

17 Q. Sure. While the group was stopped there, do you

18 recall anybody discussion -- any discussions among the group

19 or period about taking the Capitol, going into the grounds,

20 anything like that before the barrier came down?

21 A. No, none. Just chanting 1776 and stuff like that.

22 And fuck Antifa, and whose streets, our street, as the Trump

23 crowd approached.

24 Q. So would it be fair to say that your first

25 understanding that people were going to enter the Capitol

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1 grounds is when you saw individuals going through the

2 barrier?

3 A. When I saw people going up the stairs.

4 Q. Towards the barrier?

5 A. The barrier at the lower level had already been

6 breached. And I said, that's when I was like, I thought

7 there had been a barrier there. And then someone else said,

8 they just took out the barrier. I was like, oh. And which

9 leads me back to William Chrestman's comment about how we

10 started this, that I had mentioned earlier.

11 Q. Sure. Recognizing that there is lots of people

12 and lots of action going on, what's your best recollection

13 as to -- from the point you saw the barriers going down to

14 you actually going through the barriers?

15 A. I had messaged him first saying, Proud Boys didn't

16 do this because at that time I thought it was that wave of

17 Trump supporters walking up, and that they had just gone

18 right through.

19 Q. So -- and let me pause there because you raised a

20 point I wanted to get to. So I got a copy of these messages

21 and I've highlighted -- because they are duplicative of

22 highlighted the section so that it would read in order as

23 opposed to the duplicative language. If you would just go

24 ahead and take a, take a look at that. And my question will

25 be, are your texts the ones that are on the left side of the

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1 screen?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Okay.

4 A. PB did not do it, nor inspire -- I didn't remember

5 the inspired part. Yeah.

6 Q. So and then -- oh, go ahead. Please go ahead and

7 read through to refresh your memory.

8 A. (Mumbling and reading to himself.) Nobody here

9 knows what you're referring to. What happened. Yeah, how

10 would you know at that point? (Mumbling and reading to

11 himself.) Safe. Okay. Tired. KCPB helped to be -- and

12 this was very -- this was later after that.

13 Q. Okay, so I want to go through the -- oh, go ahead,

14 if you want to keep reading.

15 A. Yeah. Okay.

16 Q. So, again, and this is why I emphasized I

17 recognize that there's lots of things going on. The text to

18 the FBI, which says PB did not do it, nor inspire the crowd.

19 It is a herd mentality, not organized, reads January 6,

20 12:02 p.m.

21 A. I thought it happened later in the day.

22 Q. Well, I would assume that this was, 2:00 p.m.

23 Central Time, because that was the --

24 A. No, your phone resets automatically to the time

25 zone you're in. Well --

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1 Q. But this was --

2 UNIDENTIFIED AGENT: (Indiscernible) from him.

3 CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE: Oh, yes.

4 I'll make the representation that

5 this is the version that was received by the agent who was

6 in the Central Time Zone.

7 CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE: Yes. So it had been right

8 around 1:00.

9 BY

10 Q. How strong -- I'm sorry. Where were you when you

11 sent this text? And this is very important, so I --

12 A. Still in that group here. When I said the

13 first -- those first few moments, I was still there and like

14 two thirds back in the group of Proud Boys as people were

15 starting to go up the stairs and everything like that. I

16 immediately texted. But that's because from my point of

17 view, it looked like it had happened by the Trump

18 supporters. William Chrestman, with his own words, gave me

19 other information later. And I don't know if he -- and I

20 believe Chrestman was referring to the first barrier. Don't

21 know if he was referencing others at the time.

22 Q. Okay, I'm going to show you and let you watch along

23 with me here. This is the R.M.G. video starting at 1

24 minute, 49 seconds. And I just want to get confirmation as

25 to the timing here. I'm going to push play. Here's an

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1 individual who's crossing in front of the screen at one

2 minute, 53 seconds in, with a black baseball cap, an olive

3 or green vest with a yellow tab, and then --

4 A. That is Chrestman.

5 Q. -- what appears to be either a bat -- a piece of

6 wood with blue on the front. Is that -- you said that's

7 Mr. Chrestman?

8 A. Yes, that is definitely Mr. Chrestman right in the

9 front.

10 Q. And then I'm going to pause at 1:57.

11 A. This is a different set of barriers, I believe.

12 This -- I don't think this was the ones closest to -- wait a

13 minute.

14 Q. These, these are -- this video is of the first set

15 of barriers.

16 A. All right.

17 Q. Unless there's another set of barriers. But this

18 is the one that is the first that becomes breached. Here,

19 I'll show you. So 1:57, I paused. Actually, and just let

20 me clarify. And as I told you, this is not (indiscernible).

21 A. Because I remember that there was a -- I remember

22 there was the batch down below, then there was another set

23 midway.

24 Q. And there's going to be another set that we'll get

25 to. So --

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1 A. Yeah.

2 Q. And just to clarify, 1:57, it appears that you're

3 going across the barrier. Is that correct?

4 A. Yes. At that point, I was just like, all right,

5 just observe and report. Don't -- I kept telling myself,

6 don't get wrapped up in this. Don't get drawn in by the

7 energy. Observe and report.

8 Q. It is your recollection, as you said, that you

9 texted the agent prior to this occurring; is that correct?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. How strong is your recollection on that? Or I can

12 phrase it this way, how positive are you that you texted the

13 agent before going through the barricade?

14 A. You're actually causing doubt in my head now,

15 so -- what time is that?

16 Q. I don't have a specific time on -- actually, let

17 me see something real quick.

18 UNIDENTIFIED AGENT: So how far back does that

19 video go?

20 I'll show you. I do believe it shows

21 the beginning of the breach.

22 CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE:

23

24 BY

25 Q. So just to let you -- it's our understanding that

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1 this barrier went down about 12:53 or 12:54 p.m. Your text

2 would be at 1:02 p.m. Again, you're the person who knows

3 when you sent the text or not. But, yeah, I'll back this up

4 so you can get a better perspective of this barrier. And

5 you're going to appear here, momentarily. I think once the

6 cameraman gets closer.

7 A. It's the -- they're already going through it.

8 Q. They're not through yet.

9 A. Oh, they're not?

10 Q. They're pressing up against -- the video shows

11 that -- will show that they're pressing up closer to the

12 barrier.

13 A. So this is the second barrier, I thought the first

14 barrier down below, I thought there was a first barrier

15 right there at the street that ran left and right. This

16 would be what I had previously believed to be the second,

17 which would be why my thinking, I thought there was a

18 barrier there, when I saw people going up.

19 Q. So let me --

20 UNIDENTIFIED AGENT: Because the first barrier was

21 a street, right?

22 This is the street --

23 UNIDENTIFIED AGENT: This is the street?

24 This is the street barrier.

25 CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE: No, because what was that,

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1 what was that concrete thing then that people were walking

2 past --

3 UNIDENTIFIED AGENT: The statue?

4 BY

5 Q. It's a statue. There -- and I'll show you. I can

6 show you that, here. So this is what is known as the first

7 street. Because they're --

8 A. No, because the street's out here further. That's

9 a longer walkway up there, right?

10 Q. This is a longer walkway, and I'm going to show

11 you there's going to be another barrier you get stopped at.

12 A. I remember I was in the crowd at -- when I texted,

13 but --

14 Q. So there's you. I'm at 4:40.

15 A. That would have been my recollection of a third

16 barrier. Where's me?

17 Q. Is that correct? That's you, and I'm gonna --

18 A. Yeah, all the way up here where this is, I thought

19 that was the third barrier.

20 Q. Okay.

21 A. So my understanding of the barriers is wrong.

22 Q. Okay. So let me let me phrase it this way. At

23 the time you sent the text, how strong is your recollection,

24 just your recollection or your understanding at the time,

25 that a barrier had already been breached when you entered --

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1 A. I wouldn't have sent the text if a barrier hadn't

2 been breached already.

3 Q. Of course. I'm sorry. Let me -- that was a

4 poor -- poor way of phrasing the question. I should say it

5 this -- how sure -- how -- do you know whether you had

6 already breached the barrier yourself before sending the

7 text message?

8 A. I'm unsure now.

9 Q. Okay.

10 A. I -- that has brought into question some of my --

11 what I had perceived to be my memory at the time. But there

12 was a lot going on, and I wasn't used to being in a

13 stressful situation like this, so I could see where I would

14 make a mistake. And is it possible that I though, oh, I'm

15 going to have to let them know that I was going along and

16 then I was late at sending it, and I'm going off of when I

17 first thought about contacting -- that -- I will give that

18 is a possibility now. But before this moment, I wouldn't

19 have thought that.

20 Q. Sure. And, actually, I'm going to play from 4:40,

21 just a little bit forward. And it appears to be the

22 individual with the sunglasses. Did you see him at -- did

23 you -- I think we've seen the picture of this individual

24 before with the, with the black winter cap --

25 A. I'm not sure who that is.

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1 Q. -- here. So now at 4:33, we see the individual

2 with the sunglasses drinking a canned beverage. Is that

3 correct?

4 A. Yeah, you do.

5 Q. And then there's another individual --

6 A. Yes, I do recall walking up briefly and looking

7 around, but I also recall falling back away from it, though,

8 being like about 20 or 30 feet back right before the steps

9 went down and trying to hang out in that area. And that's

10 where I had spotted Chrestman on the far right before the

11 flash bangs and tried to ask him to, hey, why don't you come

12 hang out in the back. And I even said the same thing to

13 Ryan Ashlock, who was hanging out in the middle, and who

14 said, nah, I'm cool, I'm not getting into anything. And

15 then I had to go and pull him away from there because I saw

16 him like this at one point. And he had been pepper gassed

17 at that point and pulled him to the back where we poured

18 water in his eyes.

19 Q. Let me -- I want to show you around 4:50. There's

20 a fixed metal barrier in front of the crowd here, and it

21 looks like the individual with sunglasses and the individual

22 with glasses in the black winter cap will start rocking or

23 trying to move that barrier. Do you have any recollection

24 of that or being involved with that at all?

25 A. I do not recall that one. I remember that there

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1 was one further back which I would refer -- which my memory

2 perceived to be the second barrier. And some -- I think it

3 was a girl, had kicked it at one point and I reached forward

4 and grabbed and tried to pull it back. And I'm like, this

5 is -- I'm not going to be able to stand this back up. And I

6 said, and if you get your hand -- I shouldn't have

7 said that on the tape. I was like, if you're even seen with

8 your hands on it, it can be taken so out of context. So

9 don't. You know? And so I tried to remind myself to not

10 touch barriers anymore after that, because it was -- I guess

11 a human leg is much stronger than human arms. And there was

12 no undoing that -- what that person had done when they

13 kicked it. Because they had kicked it forward and I tried

14 to pull it back a little bit. And then I stopped and said,

15 nope, stop it,

16 Q. Okay. So it's accurate to say at this point,

17 you're not sure if you sent the text message to the agent

18 before or after you went past the barrier; is that correct?

19 A. That's correct.

20 Q. And is it correct to say either way, the FBI did

21 not authorize -- did not -- had not given you permission to

22 enter the Capitol grounds?

23 A. It is correct to say that. I, I had thought to

24 myself briefly, well, why would they want me to go along,

25 witness, observe, and report if stuff happened, or would

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1 they want me to stay out? And I was like, you know, if I

2 stay out, they'll be like, well, you know, we would have

3 been -- I thought they would have been okay. Our

4 conversations since then has confirmed that my thinking was

5 in error.

6 Q. Okay.

7 A. So I went with altruistic intentions.

8 BY UNIDENTIFIED AGENT:

9 Q. Just did you -- you did not receive direction from

10 anybody at the FBI about reporting at that point, correct?

11 A. No, it was just if I witness things happening, I

12 was going to report them anyways.

13 Q. And from that -- we mention that a lot. And so

14 when was that -- like, when did you get that kind of

15 instruction. Was it kind of a standing thing or --

16 A. Just a standing thing. Like, if I go hang out

17 with some Proud Boys and I see one of them throw a rock and

18 break a window by accident, and everyone runs, I was going

19 to report it. You know? You know, like, if that was --

20 that happened in K.C., I would have said, yeah

21 (indiscernible), there was a window broken over here. It

22 was done by this guy. By, you know, he didn't intend it,

23 but he did. You know? It was, you know, while I'm around

24 him, if I witnessed an illegal act or hear planning of it, I

25 report.

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1 Q. Okay. And for either of these two you see in

2 front of you, had that -- was that their kind of standing

3 guidance to you?

4 A. In general, just don't -- you know, don't break

5 the window yourself. You know? Or don't be involved with

6 the planning, any of those kinds of things. And I know that

7 there was error to my understanding, though.

8 BY

9 Q. And so you did -- I'll withdraw that. Let me --

10 so, at this point, as you've come through, it's my

11 understanding some other, some other of the folks who

12 were -- had traveled with the Kansas City group also had

13 gone through. Had you given anybody any instructions or

14 directions or encouragement to also come past the barriers?

15 A. No. And I had even tried to convince -- at that

16 stage, up there where the inauguration thing was, guys that

17 I had seen -- I tried to convince some of them to come back

18 from the front.

19 Q. Okay. Describe that please.

20 A. I had walked up to Brian Ashlock and,

21 and I and Chris Kuehne, and I think one other I don't

22 recall, are back over there. Why don't you come back to --

23 I'm not getting into any trouble, you know, blah, blah,

24 blah. You know, it was what he was saying. And I went over

25 to -- then -- and I didn't know where Billy was at the

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1 moment. But, you know, I had returned to the back. When I

2 spotted Billy, I went over and had the same talk with him.

3 And it might have been in reverse order where I spotted

4 Billy first, then went back, then I spotted Chris -- or Ryan

5 Ashlock and did that. But when I went up there to Billy,

6 though, that's when he was like, you know, we started this,

7 you know, and all that.

8 Q. Do you remember trying to dissuade Chris Kuehne

9 from doing something?

10 A. Yes, I do. It was beyond the inauguration stage.

11 We're all looking at people going in. They had been going

12 in for a while. And I said to him, I understand if you

13 don't want to go in, you've got a -- what's that B word,

14 when you have like a, no, P word, pension -- you got a

15 pension to worry about, and all that. And, you know, we

16 were still outside at that time because, you know, at that

17 point, I'm like, I'm not going in. And someone said, I hope

18 they're not destroying things of historical significance in

19 there. And I remember me and Chris Kuehne looking at each

20 other. And it was like (sigh), and so you could tell both

21 of us was like, oh, that would suck. And at that point we

22 did enter. But it's because we, you know, if we saw someone

23 trying to rip paintings off the wall or something like that,

24 we were going to stop them.

25 Q. How do you know that was -- was Chris Kuehne there

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1 when this other individual said, they're going to do

2 something to the antiquities, or --

3 A. He -- yeah, he was standing there, too, because we

4 both looked at each other and our eyes met. And --

5 Q. Where did this conversation take place?

6 A. Where all the inauguration stuff happened as

7 things went down, it was right up there, the top where you

8 could see people going into the back door on the left.

9 Q. Who was it that mentioned that they might be doing

10 stuff to valuables?

11 A. I don't recall.

12 Q. Was anybody else there as part of that

13 conversation, to the best of your knowledge?

14 A. I don't recall.

15 Q. Okay.

16 A. I, I believe briefly, I saw Chrestman walking

17 about up there and stuff, but there was a lot of separation

18 happening. Prior to us going up there, though, I'd been off

19 to the side just looking and watching everything. And at

20 one point -- and this was at the bottom where all the

21 scaffolding was and everything on the left side, and I

22 recall Chris Kuehne nudging me. And when I looked over, he

23 lifted up out of some kind of container, a fire

24 extinguisher, and then he passed it to someone, and I recall

25 watching it go and then vanish into the scaffolding and go

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1 up the stairs, being passed overhead by people.

2 Q. Okay. Did you ever have any explicit conversation

3 with Chris Kuehne about his motivation for entering the

4 Capitol?

5 A. No, I just said to him, I understand if you don't

6 want to go, and you've got a pension to worry about. And I

7 walked close and looked a couple of times and I'd seen

8 someone holding up an American First flag through one of the

9 windows, which is the group of -- that was head

10 of. He's an online personality. I recall watching people

11 busting through a door and going and then coming out.

12 Q. And I apologize. I hate to cut you off, but we

13 are --

14 A. I'm sorry.

15 Q. No, no, no. You're answering the questions that I

16 asked. I really appreciate it. But we need to try to keep

17 with that. It's harder as we get more tired. I totally

18 understand that. My question is did you ever have an

19 express conversation with Chris Kuehne about his motivation

20 for entering the Capitol?

21 A. No. I do recall trying to give him an excuse not

22 to need to, though.

23 Q. Okay.

24 A. Because I didn't want to.

25 Q. Did you ever have an express conversation with

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1 Ryan Ashlock as to his motivation for entering the Capitol?

2 A. He did not enter the Capitol.

3 Q. Okay, did you ever have an express conversation

4 with Enrique Colon as to why he entered the Capitol?

5 A. No, I had become separated from him, and I had

6 actually forgotten what he was wearing and all that. And it

7 took after his arrest and seeing pictures in the Capitol to

8 be like, oh, wait, he was near me at one point. Because I

9 had told them I, I couldn't recall where he was at the time.

10 Q. And, again, my question is, if you had a

11 conversation about -- with him, about his intent. And I

12 take it the answer is, no?

13 A. No.

14 Q. Did you ever have -- we'll skip Mr. Chrestman,

15 because as you said, he expressed to you his motivation.

16 A. After the fact, yeah.

17 Q. Did you ever have a conversation with Felicia

18 Konold about her intention in entering the Capitol?

19 A. No. We had become separated from William

20 Chrestman, who was with her and her brother a lot.

21 Q. And, again, the question is ever, so my only

22 question is, if ever -- did you ever have a conversation

23 with Cory Konold about his motivation for entering the

24 Capitol?

25 A. No.

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1 Q. Okay. And did you ever direct anybody or ask --

2 (indiscernible) two ways. Did you ever direct anybody to

3 enter the Capitol Building?

4 A. No, I --

5 Q. Did you ever direct anybody to enter the Capitol

6 grounds?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Did you ever ask anyone to enter the Capitol

9 Building?

10 A. No.

11 Q. Did you ever ask anybody to enter the Capitol

12 grounds?

13 A. No. I don't believe I would have had the chance

14 to ask. And the very fact that I was, you know, trying to

15 tell Chris Kuehne, hey, I understand if you don't want to go

16 in there, you know, shows that I was not in the point to try

17 and encourage.

18 Q. So now I'm going to -- you've provided prior

19 descriptions of events that occurred in the Capitol. And so

20 we're actually going to move to afterwards. So after you

21 exit the Capitol, the building itself, what do you do next,

22 or what does the group do next?

23 A. We were trying to leave and the people coming up

24 the stairs was just too great. So we had to then get on

25 concrete railing and slide down on our butts and utilize, I

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1 believe, three-inch-thick cables to scale down.

2 Q. Okay, so once you get to -- who are you with at

3 that point?

4 Q. Felicia Konold, Billy, and all, because we had met

5 up together at the very end before exiting. And we were all

6 trying to leave together, and that's what we had to utilize

7 the scaling down and all that. And a bunch of them went

8 before me. And as I was scaling down, I realized that the

9 protective armor I had over my torso was just way too heavy.

10 And so I released it and dropped half. And then while

11 William Chrestman was getting the rest of it -- I didn't

12 know he was below me -- and I released the other half and it

13 landed right on him. And he was like, man, if that had been

14 you coming down in that, I would have punched you.

15 Q. So once the group has assembled -- or who did you

16 meet up with after the Capitol, before you then head back to

17 the Airbnb?

18 A. As we -- after scaling down, I ended up talking to

19 Enrique Colon, and I don't recall if he scaled down with me,

20 but he was telling me about an experience he had where he

21 was separated from us. And he said, while he was in the

22 Capitol, he asked some other guys, hey, are you all Proud

23 Boys? And one guy started looking at him funny and he got

24 into it with them, and they removed a knife from him.

25 And --

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1 Q. Did you witness that incident?

2 A. No, he told me about it, and he kept telling me

3 about it over and over again, just to make sure that our

4 chapter president all knew his side of the story, and

5 everything. I'm like, look, man, I'm sure it was a

6 misunderstanding. You know? And I recall saying, you know,

7 your colors don't exactly scream Proud Boy, you know? And,

8 you know, tell him, don't worry about it. Things happen. I

9 get it, man. Hey, I don't think you any less, or it's okay.

10 You know, just trying to placate him because he seemed

11 really, really, you know, nervous and upset about that.

12 Q. And I'm going to try to consolidate. So before

13 you actually take the train back to the Airbnb, who gets --

14 who all gets together?

15 A. We encountered Ryan at Harry's where,

16 after I had found Ryan , pulled him out of the crowd and we

17 poured water in his eyes, I had told hey, it's

18 probably best to get out of here. He goes, okay, we'll go

19 and wait by Harry's, something along those lines. Or I told

20 him to go wait by Harry's, and that's where they went, and

21 that's where we found them.

22 Q. You know, you mentioned -- when you're describing

23 the crowd -- I need to go back to this. Did go into

24 the grounds as well?

25 A. was on the ground as well. He went all the

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1 well, yeah, I don't recall how they all did. It was --

2 Q.

3 A.

5 Q. Do you recall anybody specifically from

6 (indiscernible) --

7 A. Ryan, Enrique, Billy, Felicia, and her

8 brother, who then separated elsewhere.

9 Q. I'm sorry, who's ?

10 A. Felicia. I'm -- (indiscernible)

11 Ryan, me, Enrique, William, Chris Kuehne. I may have

12 mis-said a name.

13 Q. Okay. And then you said Felicia and her brother

14 were on for a little bit, but you then separated.

15 A. Yeah, I believe they separated from us and went to

16 a different subway exit location.

17 Q. Okay. Are there any discussions on the train or

18 is anybody providing any directions as to what to do or not

19 to do at this point?

20 A. No.

21 Q. Okay.

22 A. And I remember someone asked, hey, did you all see

23 what was going on in the Capitol? Like, yeah. Like, I

24 heard the Proud Boys (indiscernible). Oh, no, I watched

25 that first barrier go down. It was definitely regular Trump

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1 supporters, you know, and I'm like, we're not going to take

2 their glory. They did it for sure. But that was still my

3 perception at that time.

4 Q. Sure. Beyond that, was there any discussion about

5 people being concerned they were in trouble or to measures

6 they should take to protect themselves at that point?

7 A. I do not recall that kind of talk. I think there

8 was a lot of silence. And, are we at the right stop? Which

9 one are we going to? People being tired.

10 Q. So, then, arriving back at the Airbnb, what goes

11 on that night?

12 A. Trying to remember was -- did they order pizza for

13 us to eat on, or was that the night before? But people were

14 pretty tired and everything. And shortly after getting

15 there, I'm up just lying on the bed that I got, sharing a

16 room with William Chrestman.

17 So

18 I arranged to ride with Billy, or William Chrestman, back.

19 And Enrique came into the room and say, so I just want to

20 say again, blah, blah, blah. Like, you'll be fine, dude.

21 It's okay. Don't worry about it. And then I walked

22 downstairs at one point to get a drink, and I think it was a

23 beer at that point, and someone's like, man, Enrique just

24 bailed. I'm like, what? They go, he had family show up and

25 pick him up and he left. I was like, that's not weird at

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1 all. And then that's when Chris Kuehne had mentioned, yeah,

2 he even left his gun in my truck.

3 Q. Were there -- was there celebration about what had

4 occurred or any discussions about what had occurred or

5 concerns? Anything like that going on?

6 A. No, I -- if I recall correctly, someone got an

7 official first degree there in the living room. And I

8 recall -- and he's saying, well, no

9 one has technically done the true vetting process.

10 Q. And I apologize, you just made an indication that

11 -- and you did a hand gesture --

12 A. He was like, can I get, you know, because --

13 Q. And for the recording, was he -- did you get the

14 impression he was asking whether he could become a Proud

15 Boy?

16 A. Yeah. Get his first degree at that moment. And I

17 had already communicated with the chapter president and

18 said, hey, is wanting to get his first

19 degree. And he said, well, no one's ever truly vetted and

20 we have to run a background check before they can get their

21 first degree and stuff like that. I was like, okay, and

22 I'll let him know that.

23 Q. But again, could you describe -- was there a

24 general mood of the folks?

25 A. Tired. Like, everyone was just like, you know --

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1 Q. Did you report back to anybody or did anybody

2 report back to the K.C. president of what occurred?

3 A. I recall saying, hey, are y'all

4 on your way back right now? Said, no, we're leaving in the

5 morning. And he texted back, gay.

6 Q. Okay. So I want to follow up -- and we're near

7 the end here. And I, again, appreciate everything. During

8 one of your prior meetings, you mentioned that Chrestman had

9 assisted with the Colorado militia guy not getting arrested.

10 A. That's what he had verbally said to me.

11 Q. You did not witness that?

12 A. No, he told me that.

13 Q. Did you --- and I take it that means you don't

14 have any images or video of that?

15 A. No, I do not.

16 Q. Okay. Do you have any other information about

17 anybody else being harmed while at the Capitol, knives, axe

18 handles, other than Chrestman, firearms, anything?

19 A. Just Enrique admitting that he had a knife on his

20 person and that it was taken by other Proud Boys there. I

21 don't know if it was taken inside the Capitol or right after

22 he exited.

23 Q. And you mentioned that Chris Kuehne gave you some

24 pepper spray on the morning of the 6th; is that correct?

25 A. Yes.

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1 Q. Did you ever use it?

2 A. I did not use it once.

3 Q. Did you have it with you within the Capitol?

4 A. Yes, he handed it to me as we were exiting the

5 trucks to go to the subway station.

6 Q. On the way to D.C.?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Yes. Can you -- how big of a can was it?

9 A. It was one of the small ones that goes on a

10 keychain.

11 Q. Oh, okay. And you're indicating maybe two or

12 three inches, four inches big.

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Okay.

15 A. And it never left my pocket.

16 Q. Okay, do you have any notes or anything

17 documenting any of the conduct that occurred on January 6th?

18 A. I did not write anything down. I didn't want to

19 have anything that the wrong person might pick up.

20 Q. All right. Do you still have any of the Telegram

21 chats with Chrestman in which you sent him The Wall Street

22 Journal link?

23 A. No, that's, you know -- no.

24 Q. Okay. It's my understanding from the prior

25 meetings you had with the agents that you may have deleted

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D.C. Area 301-261-1902
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1 some of the communications relating to the events of

2 January -- not communications, some of the -- well,

3 communications videos, images. I'll withdraw all of that.

4 Let me ask a fresh question. Have you deleted any images or

5 videos that you took on January 6th?

6 A. There was one video. I had two in a row, and in

7 one video I'm trying to tell a crowd of people that are

8 encountering police, you don't have to do this. The cops

9 don't have to arrest anyone. You don't have to hurt the

10 cops. Your voice has been heard. It's time to go home.

11 Right before that, I had done one where I videoed people

12 through a skylight pounding on the roof and I wondered, how

13 the hell do they get on the damn roof. Upon exiting, I saw

14 the lifts outside were for like window cleaning or

15 something. I had ended up deleting that, though.

16 Q. Did you delete the one which -- in which you were

17 telling the people?

18 A. No.

19 Q. Okay.

20 A. I've still got --

21 Q. You still have that one?

22 A. Yeah, because that -- my intention was never a

23 negative reason when I entered. And I tried to do some

24 deescalating inside. One instance involving seeing a guy in

25 a tug of war with an officer with a chair. And I walked up

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D.C. Area 301-261-1902
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1 and got real close to put my hands on the shoulders, and he

2 paused and looked like that, and the cop then took and ran

3 away. And he was not happy the cop got away and took and

4 threw the chair as a result.

5 Q. So let me make -- is this as the door is closing,

6 by chance?

7 A. Yes. And I then interact with that guy, so to try

8 and stop his little thing with the cop.

9 Q. So let me be clear then. Have you deleted any

10 image files to the best of your knowledge regarding

11 January 6?

12 A. That one -- that one video of the skyline --

13 Q. Image files, like photos.

14 A. To the best of my knowledge, no.

15 Q. Okay. And as far as --

16 A. I thought I'd shared like everything I'd taken,

17 too.

18 Q. Okay. As far as videos, you said you deleted the

19 one with the skylight. And just out of curiosity, why did

20 you choose to delete that one?

21 A. I don't recall. I'm wondering, was it space

22 related in my phone, and I thought that, well, this one's

23 really not going to be able to, you know, be useful and all

24 that. It may have been bad quality. I don't recall.

25 Q. To the best of your knowledge --

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1 A. It had been like within a day or two, as I was

2 scrolling through it all, (indiscernible).

3 Q. To the best knowledge, have you destroyed any

4 other videos relating January 6?

5 A. Not that I recall.

6 Q. Do you have any videos of the group at the Airbnb,

7 or any preplanning videos or pictures?

8 A. No, just one. I thought I had one picture

9 afterwards with Chris Kuehne where he was laid back on the

10 couch and I laid back with him and I took a selfie of he

11 and I. I'll have to look and see if I still have that.

12 Q. Have you -- and I think you mentioned you've

13 deleted some communications related to January 6; is that

14 correct?

15 A. Yeah. Like, if I took a screenshot and I shared

16 it with him, I removed that from my phone and some chats are

17 just no longer in existence.

18 Q. Have you deleted any contacts from your phone of

19 anybody involved with the events of January 6?

20 A. No, I think I still have -- I don't know. I'd

21 have to check and see if Billy is still in there. I don't

22 recall, or if me and Billy only communicated via Telegram.

23 Q. Okay. At this point, is really more of an

24 overarching question, is there anything else regarding

25 the -- recognizing you've done the two prior interviews and

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1 you've provided quite a bit of explanation as to your

2 reasoning to enter the building, is there anything that I

3 forgot to ask you or any other recollections regarding

4 anybody else that was involved in the events of January 6

5 that you think would be helpful, that you have specific

6 knowledge about?

7 A. I don't recall off the top of my head.

8 UNIDENTIFIED AGENT: Do you mind if I ask a

9 question about January 5th?

10 Yeah, please.

11 BY UNIDENTIFIED AGENT:

12 Q. January 5th, the night before, you mentioned

13 Do you

14 recall anyone at the Airbnb

15

16

17 A. Someone from showed up, now that you

18 ask -- yes. I don't recall who. I would have stated it

19 back then during a previous conversation, but I don't recall

20 who they were associated with again, off the top of my head.

21 It might have -- you know,

22 and old friend from back in the day or something or --

23 Q. Do you recall anything about him that would

24 describe him or anything that he spoke -- that he talked

25 about on the evening of the 5th?

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1 A. I think something I would have -- I -- for some

2 reason, I seem to recall saying, was he interested in

3 joining the Proud Boys? But I didn't get an answer and all

4 that. But that's just 'cause I was trying to figure out,

5 well, who's this guy. You know, but I don't, I don't even

6 think I had any real direct conversation with the guy, other

7 than, hey, or something like that. I had actually forgotten

8 about him.

9 BY

10 Q. Do you recall him making any statements about

11 engaging in any violence?

12 A. I do not recall. I don't remember.

13 Q. Do you recall anybody else coming by from any

14 other states, possibly?

15 A. Just and the people.

16 Q.

17 A.

18 Q.

19

20

21

22

23

24

25 A.

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1 Q.

4 UNIDENTIFIED AGENT:

6 CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE:

7 UNIDENTIFIED AGENT:

8 CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE:

10

11 UNIDENTIFIED AGENT:

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21 CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE:

22

23 UNIDENTIFIED AGENT:

24

25 CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE:

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4 Would you be able, just in the short

5 term -- I'd love to get a copy of that video you referenced

6 where you're telling people whatever you told them to do.

7 UNIDENTIFIED AGENT: Is this something that you

8 want me to record with --

10

11 CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE: Just a second here. I think

12 this is the one.

13 UNIDENTIFIED AGENT: One way of doing this is I

14 can, like, take a video of his phone, maybe, of that. Can

15 you think of any other way of extracting that --

16 UNIDENTIFIED AGENT: No.

17 UNIDENTIFIED AGENT: -- off his phone?

18 (Video plays.)

19 And who are you talking to?

20 CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE: Trying to talk to the crowd.

21 (Video plays.)

22 Go ahead and stop that.

23

24 CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE:

25

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000479
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1 point, it is approximately 6:58 p.m.

4 If anything else comes to mind, we do

5 ask that you reach out to the agents. And you know how to

6 do that, correct?

7 CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE: Yeah. And --

8 Thank --

9 CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE: I really did think I was

10 doing the right thing, but I have been informed that I was

11 technically in error. And, you know, I don't blame them.

12 I -- you know, if there is a mistake, it was on me. But I

13 thought it would be more important for me to be able to

14 observe and collect info as opposed to have stayed away and

15 I don't know what happened, and all that. I thought it was

16 more helpful to be able to, you know, say, hey, I saw this

17 or what have you.

18 Sure. Thank you.

19 (End of recording.)

20

21

22

23

24

25

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HIGHLY SENSITIVE KC000480

D.C. Area 301-261-1902
Balt. & Annap. 410-974-0947